Creation

            From all ages man has pondered his origins.  The origins of species of the planet Earth and in the universe as a whole cannot be determined from the natural evidence which is left for us in the universe.  Understanding the operation of the natural phenomena will never be able to lead us to an accurate understanding of the origination of the universe.  The only way we can understand the origination of the universe for sure is through the declaration of the God Who made the universe and all that is or ever was.  Some of the theories created by man are more or less intricate than others, but all necessarily fail at the point of lack of proof.  Shocking to our senses of reason and logic is the false proposition made by atheists that matter is eternal since science proves that all matter had a beginning and since all matter, time, and space had a beginning then there has to be a cause for matter, time, and space that is outside of matter, time, and space.  There is no refutation to the Necessary Being which is God for the creation of all things.  There is no logic which can deny that the only way in which we can know how the origination of all things occurred than to read the record which the God of the Universe has left for us in the Christian Bible.  And in creating the universe it is clear that God began with no preexisting material but that the universe was created out of nothing, before the Creation of the universe there was not even time and so it would be improper to even speak of what came before the creation since there was no before the creation—a fact which scientists are only beginning to understand but which Christians have known all along.

            From the Torah we have the written declaration of how the creation of the universe occurred and on this point and on the points above there is not debate in the Christian community.  However, when the question turns to how long ago these events occurred there is a lot of debate in the Christian community.  From the Scriptures there are many different ways in which the Mosaic writings have been interpreted as historical, allegorical, or mythological.  While there is a growing community of fundamentalists who hold to a strictly historical interpretation of the Torah, there are Christians who take the Bible’s record very seriously who view the Torah as presenting the reader with an opportunity to recognize the gap that is between the beginning of the universe in Chaos in Genesis 1:1 and the beginning of the ordered Creation in Genesis 1:2 as has been supposed in rabbinic traditions going back as far back as we have records.  The question boils down to distinction which can be interpreted into the different phases of creation in the first two verses of Genesis:

Genesis 1:1  In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

 

Genesis 1:2  The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Moreover, from the first chapter of Genesis there is speculation amongst the Christian community that when it is said that God created the universe in a series of days, that the Hebrew word יוםshould be understood to be a long period of time rather than a literal 24 hour day as in the passages of Scripture which refer to the “Day of the LORD” meaning time everlasting in the End of Days.  While this debate continues to go on, it is important for us to recognize the sincerity of the Christian devotion amongst those who take varying positions on the time elapsed between the beginning of the Creation of God and the present.  Moreover, it must be remembered that due to the nature of the debate that this debate in the Christian community will probably only end when we see the LORD face to face.

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Comments (6)

  1. mrmacq

    “The only way we can understand the origination of the universe for sure is through the declaration of the God Who made the universe”
    .
    yeah whatever dude
    slower minds take the easy way out

    September 13, 2012
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  2. EricCharlesSmith

    Was there a First Cause that was not caused? Yes. And that is what I call God. However, you make a giant leap that there is no rationale for when you assert that the Abrahamic God is the First Cause.

    September 13, 2012
    1. rebel62

      Who caused the first cause?

      November 27, 2012
      1. hearthappy45

        God was the first causer. God is by necessity the uncaused causer of all things created both unseen and seen. There is no way to avoid this logical necessity.

        November 27, 2012
        1. rebel62

          Who caused god? if the universe cannot come from nothing how can your god come from nothing?

          November 27, 2012
      2. EricCharlesSmith

        That is the true mytery of God. That is my definition of God. By virtue of being the FIRST Cause, it was not itself “caused.” This is the view formulated by Aristotle, and I can find no rational basis for rebutting it.

        December 01, 2012
        1. rebel62

          Aristotle, was a great philosopher however fortunately for us we have taken the argument further then Socrates, Plato or Aristotle.

          It is still an ultimate regression, saying Oh well god is, god always was and always is, is like saying a rock is always a rock and always was. Everything is subject to the second law of thermodynamics ( caos, entropy), their is nothing known that is not subject to this including man mad concept of a god. Chances are your god is a christian manifestation of the idea of god. If so the very premise is not viable seeing how the christians stole everything from the pagans. The christians of the early church would not recognize the modern concept of god, they never had a personal savior like modern christians. That came about after the 14th century, also the early church never believed christ to have ever been on earth. To the early church christ existed in a mythical realm. I wrote a blog about the early church and Paul.
          To me it makes no sense that a god could be and always was. When related to physics even they say they do not know how the universe started. As far as they can tell it just happened and we can see from the beginning to now, however when it comes to a man mad idea of god, nothing is seen. Not one discovery of a god or proof of god exists other than people saying he does in the bible. We have evidence however of the universe and it beginning after the big bang, even if we do not know first cause, their is no evidence of gods foot being in the gap.

          December 02, 2012
          1. EricCharlesSmith

            I’m not sure we disagree about anything except calling the “first cause” God.

            December 18, 2012
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  3. danthequestionman

    Considering the origination of the universe(s) one has to use a little common sense.
    First, the Big Bang theory, like all other theories, has it’s minor flaws, the biggest one being that the origin of the universes started from nothing, nada, not even a molecule or two of gaseous or any other matter for magnetism or gravitional forces to even come into being, never mind generate a whisper, or a bang of any kind.
    Next is the origin of matter, if it eternally existed, why is the evolution of the universes only a mere 13 ro 15 billion years according to scientific observation and theory?
    Does either of those two make sense, if sense is common to mankind whether good, average, or illiterate?
    Concerning creation, which has been written of since the time of Enoch, 7th. generation from Adam & Eve and who was recorded of in Hebrew and Christian scriptures(both Old and New Testaments) we have a five to six thousand year testimony of the workings of the God who created all things; now we have something postive and tangible to work with.
    As far as the time frame whithin God(Who is timeless), worked His creation of the universes, we have scripted records again in the Old and New Testaments which more than allow for a mere 15 billion years of man’s time.
    Let’s look first at the New Testament – 2nd. Peter 2:8 “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” giving us the proof of the timelessness of God.
    Then let’s look at the Old Testament – Genesis 2:4, which states “These are the generations of the heavens and the earths when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens”; if one day with the Lord is as a “thousand years” how much of a time frame can we place on the “generations” in which the universes were created?
    Really, what makes good common sense Here?

    September 23, 2012
    1. rebel62

      You said: “Considering the origination of the universe(s) one has to use a little common sense.
      First, the Big Bang theory, like all other theories, has it’s minor flaws, the biggest one being that the origin of the universes started from nothing, nada, not even a molecule or two of gaseous or any other matter for magnetism or gravitional forces to even come into being, never mind generate a whisper, or a bang of any kind.”

      You are right the only difference is WE KNOW what happened from the big bang to now, it is a documented fact available to anyone who is interested in how the universe was created. You will not find a physicist who would disagree unless he is from a private college, however no real physicist would deny the big bang and everything after that.
      One thing is obvious we have zero proof, nada, none as far as a god, let alone god being the ultimate cause. I think people think that something called a theory is not proven, that is not true, the theory of gravity is true. You can test this by jumping out a window and see. Now if a caring god existed that could be proven too, just jump out a window, if you do not fall your god exists and the theory of gravity does not.

      You said: " Next is the origin of matter, if it eternally existed, why is the evolution of the universes only a mere 13 ro 15 billion years according to scientific observation and theory?
      Does either of those two make sense, if sense is common to mankind whether good, average, or illiterate?"

      As far as the origin of matter goes, who says it eternally existed? Physicists say nothing of the sort, they say, it suddenly came into existence and they DO NOT KNOW HOW OR WHY, but that’s all they know. It is the christian that says god is eternal.
      It is also common known fact the Universe is 13.75 billion years old,and again no Physicist would deny that unless they wanted to lose their job, and end up working in a christian college.

      I love this part you say: " Concerning creation, which has been written of since the time of Enoch, 7th. generation from Adam & Eve and who was recorded of in Hebrew and Christian scriptures(both Old and New Testaments) we have a five to six thousand year testimony of the workings of the God who created all things; now we have something postive and tangible to work with"

      Unfortunately that is a poor choice of reference, seeing how it is only in the bible. I think if you were to think outside the bible you will see their are thousands of books written on the subject. These books are far superior to the bible in the realm of the Physics of creation.

      Do people really only use the bible as the answer to questions of physics? Just one college level book of physics has more information on the creation of the universe on one page, compared to the complete bible. I am curious would you let a doctor operate one someone who only read the bible or hundreds of books of science? People would prefer a doctor to operate using the hundreds of science books as a good reference. Why? because they are positive and tangible to work with. The bible on the other hand might not be a good reference for any science let alone how the earth was formed or how life began.

      I am curious if you acknowledge the pagan gods? seeing how the christians stole the story from them. That was a popular thing to do back then, the story of jesus is identical to much older gods like Horus for example. Horus was know as the son of god, the light, the alpha and omega, the whole story is the same look it up. The god story you speak of is old news to everyone but today’s christians they seem to think they have a unique and original god, just a little research would do wonders.

      December 02, 2012
      1. danthequestionman

        rebel62;
        Concerning your response to my thoughts regarding the Big Bang theory, you state physics does “NOT KNOW HOW OR WHY” to the origin of matter that would have caused a Big Bang when there was no matter of any kind, solid, liquid or gaseous to generate such an effect. In this instant case you are absolutely correct. Physics does not know but the Bible gives you an answer.
        One thing you mentioned about jumping out of a window to prove or disprove either the presence God or the physics Law of Gravity, my Bible tells me not to try or test God as noted in the New Testament teachings of Jesus when He was tested by Satan to jump off the pinnical of the Temple so God would save Him through His angels. Gravity is a fact that did not require the world of “science” to be proven. Jumping out of a window and breaking a limb or worse has also been proven. So why test science or God?
        I also want to thank you for correcting my guess of “13 to 15 billion years” to the physics theoretic date of 13.75 billion years of the start of creation. My bad.
        Concerning my references to the Bible regarding creation, the Hebrew and Christian writings are said to be pre-dated by Egyptian and Hindi scripts and steles for five to ten thousand years, so the concept of a Creator God or gods is nothing new.
        What is new is the New Testament redemptive teachings of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who took the sins of those who choose to believe in Him, in our and His Heavenly Father and the Divine Holy Spirit of God who enacted creation of us and our known universes for their purpose and glory.
        As far as the “hundreds of books of science” you refer to, they have no answer for miraculous healings(one which I received directly from the Presence and Power of God that I personally felt and experienced at the time of my healing) of body, mind, soul and spirit when one chooses to accept the presence of God in their hearts and decide to live their lives with Him.
        I agree with you that most people would prefer a doctor of the health sciences and physics educations to operate on them, especially if they do not believe in God.
        The Bible tells us there are many gods, the majority replicated in wood, stone and precious metals so I definetely acknowledge the pagan gods. Thus far I have had no evidence of any pagan gods performing any miraculous acts, in fact, their histories appear to relate more to murderous actions and unwarranted human sacrifices than any Biblical accounts and prophecies.
        Research on the Egyptian god Horus who you claim has the same story of the New Testament accounts of Jesus, the only connection I found between the two is the atheistics references to their crucifixions and ressurections, which, by the way, state that Horus received a wound to his hand from a spear or lance from his uncle who had cut Horus’ father to be, Isiris, into pieces, scattering Isiris’ body parts in all directions. Horus was not crucified according to any hieroglyphic or stele.
        The birth of Horus is recorded as being “supernatural” because his mother Isis searched everywhere to find the pieces of her husband Isiris, the former Pharaoh “god”, found all of them and pieced him back together(doesn’t say if she used crazy glue or not) and breathed life back into him long enough to have sexual relations with him and impregnate her with Horus.
        Therefore the concept of “resurrection” had nothing to do with Horus, but with his father who she brought back to life for a “piece of tail”; either Isiris was a good lover or well endowed for her to go that far. As far the “tail” part is concerned it’s a little difficult to decipher if his coat tail or sleeve sticks out to the front or back.
        Horus was not scripted of as being put to death for the salvation of the souls or taking on the sins of any man but himself, so I see no real evidence that had any similarities to connect the stories of Jesus and Horus.
        My belief in my Creator God has not been swayed in any manner, shape or form by your references to physics and science as a preferred belief system.
        If you are looking for confirmation of the existence and/or presence of the God I believe in, simply listen to that little voice inside you that tells you constantly whether you are doing or thinking wrong or right.
        You will notice you feel good when you put yourself out to help those in need and you feel bad when you do something wrong; that is the Presence of the Living God within you that you somtimes refer to as a conscience. Why don’t you contact your physics and science figures and have them explain why you know good from evil if you were spawned from some unfeeling molecule or amoeba.

        December 05, 2012
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        2. hearthappy45

          One of the reasons why Hindu and Egyptian creation accounts predate the Mosaic record is that there was a creation and when Adam and Eve had their children they told their children about what had happened to them in the Garden. Over the centuries and as thousands of years went by many of those children would record what had happened. With so much time going back errors crept into the story as parents would’ve elaborated on points that they were unsure of or felt would’ve been logical or simply to offer an explanation where they did not have a proper answer they would’ve felt that an improper answer was better than no answer at all as so many Christians wrongly think today. But the ancient Egyptians and Hindus would’ve had the opportunity to write down their stories of the creation before Moses received the true story from God.

          December 05, 2012
  4. rebel62

    You said: " Concerning your response to my thoughts regarding the Big Bang theory, you state physics does “NOT KNOW HOW OR WHY” to the origin of matter that would have caused a Big Bang when there was no matter of any kind, solid, liquid or gaseous to generate such an effect. In this instant case you are absolutely correct. Physics does not know but the Bible gives you an answer."

    I have read the bible and it does not give you any information before creation. I am curious what you think the bible says before creation? There was nothing but a void, I guess your god was sleeping or something right? Physics may not know what happened before the big bang, but they know what happened after the big bang to now. It is a fact and not debated among scientists, only believers doubt the big bang.

    You said: " One thing you mentioned about jumping out of a window to prove or disprove either the presence God or the physics Law of Gravity, my Bible tells me not to try or test God as noted in the New Testament teachings of Jesus when He was tested by Satan to jump off the pinnical of the Temple so God would save Him through His angels. Gravity is a fact that did not require the world of “science” to be proven. Jumping out of a window and breaking a limb or worse has also been proven. So why test science or God? "

    I do not think you understand how science works, they test things to gain knowledge and understanding. I guess to the religious this is scary because science has on countless occasions proven the bible to be false. Science proves or disproves even if they do not like the answer themselves, that is what they do.
    The bible told us the earth is flat, science tested it and found it not to be the case. The bible told us the sun revolved around the earth, science tested it and found it not to be the case. The bible told us of a great flood that covered the entire earth, science has proven that not to be the case. The bible tells us that we should not suffer a witch to live, we have proven witches do not exist. The bible tells us that we should stone to death a child who curseth his father, science proves this not to be a good thing for the survival of society.
    For someone to think there is no point in testing and proving things, to help our understanding is lost in delusion. With your logic if we create a vaccine for a disease there is no point in testing it. If we find a plant when eaten can cure cancer, no point in testing it, because it already exists?

    You said: " Concerning my references to the Bible regarding creation, the Hebrew and Christian writings are said to be pre-dated by Egyptian and Hindi scripts and steles for five to ten thousand years, so the concept of a Creator God or gods is nothing new.
    What is new is the New Testament redemptive teachings of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who took the sins of those who choose to believe in Him, in our and His Heavenly Father and the Divine Holy Spirit of God who enacted creation of us and our known universes for their purpose and glory.

    No nothing new there try again, the whole story was plagiarized, the redemptive teachings of Horus tell us of how he died for our sins. His entire story it the same and he predated christ.

    You said: " As far as the “hundreds of books of science” you refer to, they have no answer for miraculous healings(one which I received directly from the Presence and Power of God that I personally felt and experienced at the time of my healing) of body, mind, soul and spirit when one chooses to accept the presence of God in their hearts and decide to live their lives with Him."

    Actually they do answer spontaneous healing (no such thing as miraculous healing) In science the call that the bodies NATURAL and resilient ability to heal itself. Also modern medicine and other medical techniques come into play. It is interesting how a believer can be in a hospital surrounded by mans medicine, medical techniques and training, then give god the credit. Did you have the arrogance to tell the doctor he did nothing it was god?

    As far as you personally getting a feeling from accepting the presence of god. You are confusing the same feeling of elation someone gets from meditation, running or deep contemplation. There are thousands of books on this very subject it is not a private domain of only believers.

    You said: " The Bible tells us there are many gods, the majority replicated in wood, stone and precious metals so I definetely acknowledge the pagan gods. Thus far I have had no evidence of any pagan gods performing any miraculous acts, in fact, their histories appear to relate more to murderous actions and unwarranted human sacrifices than any Biblical accounts and prophecies."

    Your god has killed more people than any other god story, also eating the bread and drinking whine, is a direct plagiarism of the pagan cannibalistic sacrifices. You god sacrificed his own sun, Your god killed everyone one earth, Your god is no better than any other.
    It seems when you claim to read about other gods you put on a filter, you should try to be objective use reason and logic. The stories are the same, your god is not price among thieves. As far as pagan god doing miracles I use Horus as an example. After he was baptized her performed miracles just like jesus and just like jesus no evidence exists.
    Why do you think christianity is shying away from the virgin birth and miracles? because of no proof, that is why most christian churches shy away from the folklore. The christian church is going thru changes I am surprised most church goers do not realize their own churches catechism anymore.

    As far as you thinking no comparison of horus is the same as the jesus story, see below.

    Event Horus Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus

    Conception: Horus was born of a virgin.
    Jesus was born of a virgin.

    Father: Horus was the only begotten son of the God Osiris.
    jesus was the only begotten son of Yehovah
    (in the form of the Holy Spirit).

    Mother: Horus’ mother Isis-Meri.
    jesus’ mother Miriam (now often referred to as Mary).

    Foster father: Horus’ father was Seb, (a.k.a. Jo-Seph).
    jesus’ father was Joseph.

    Foster father’s ancestry: Horus’ was of royal descent
    jesus was of royal descent.

    Annunciation: In the case of Horus by an angel to Isis, his mother.
    In the case of jesus by an angel to Miriam, his mother.

    Birth heralded by: Horus’ the star Sirius, the morning star.
    jesus’ an unidentified “star in the East.”

    Birth date: Horus: Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human.
    jesus: Born during the fall. However, his birth date is now celebrated on Dec. 23 The date was chosen to occur on the same date as the birth of Mithra, Dionysus and the So Invictus.

    Birth announcement: Horus’ by angels.
    jesus’ by angels.

    Birth witnesses: Horus’ by Shepherds.
    jesus by Shepherds.

    Later witnesses to birth: Horus’ three solar deities.
    jesus’ An unknown number of wise men. They are said to have brought three gifts: thus the leend grew that there were three men

    Death threat: Horus, during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered.
    jesus, Herod tried to have jesus murderd.

    Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.
    An angel tells jesus’ father to " Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."

    Rite of passage ritual: Horus at the age of 12 came of age with a special ritual, when his eye was restored.
    jesus at the age of 12 came of age with a special ritual, that is called a bar mitzvah today.

    Break in life history: Both have no data between ages of 12 & 30.

    Baptism location: Horus at he age of 30 In the RIVER Eridanus. Jesus at the age of 30 In the RIVER Jordan.

    Baptized by: Horus, Anup THE Baptiser. Jesus, John THE Baptist.

    Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Both were Beheaded

    You are right no evidence of similarities, certainly not enough to make you think the story was plagiarized, what was I thinking.
    These are only a few, I would suggest not going to an apologetics site for information about other gods you will not get the truth from the church. However I think that their is obviously proof of the christians stealing from the cult of Horus. One could say it is not true but the overwhelming coincidences prove Jesus story is a fake.

    You said: " You will notice you feel good when you put yourself out to help those in need and you feel bad when you do something wrong; that is the Presence of the Living God within you that you somtimes refer to as a conscience. Why don’t you contact your physics and science figures and have them explain why you know good from evil if you were spawned from some unfeeling molecule or amoeba."

    The feeling you get from helping someone is not god given, you call your conscience " the presence of a living god " I say not it is your innate ability to know to do right, animals live in groups and help each other according to your logic that would be impossible.

    You said “Why don’t you contact your physics and science figures and have them explain why you know good from evil if you were spawned from some unfeeling molecule or amoeba.”

    Science has answered that, they say we have been on this earth for up to 250 thousand years. In order for our tribes to survive we had to get along. If we killed each other, the tribe would get week and die out. The tribes that did not think like christians and wipe each other out lived the longest. So it became innate in man not to kill each other.

    With your logic a person who stops believing in god will start murdering and killing people. I used to believe and when I learned how to think critically and no longer believed. I did not start killing and murdering people, so you see knowledge is not bad it teaches you things. You do not have to fear science, you do not have to fear atheists. After all atheists do not blow themselves up, kill abortion doctors, fly plains into buildings or make up the majority of the entire inmate population in United States jails Christians do.

    December 05, 2012
    1. hearthappy45

      There was no before the creation because at the creation, as scientists will tell you, not only was matter created but time and space were created as well. Stephen Hawking put it best by saying simply that it would be illogical to ask what happened before the creation since there was no before the creation.

      December 05, 2012
      1. rebel62

        Like I said Science does not know what happened before the big bang. The believers says god is and ALWAYS WAS.

        December 06, 2012
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          1. rebel62

            Wow, I guess you are not sure how to research things so I will give you a clue. When you want to know information on a subject try going to an objective source.
            You said:
            " W. Ward Gasque conducted a world-wide poll of twenty(20) certified Egyptologists in the U.K., U.S., Australia, Germany, etc. to verify the findings of writers of Egyptology, among them was noted poet and self-educated Egyptologist Gerald Massey(1828 to 1907) who claimed that there was a similarity between Horus and Jesus and that Christianity plagiarized the Egyptian history of Horus.
            The scholars contacted were unanimous in dismissing all the claims made connecting the histories of Jesus to that of Horus including those made by Gerald Massey."

            W. Ward Gasque is a religious writer and Gerald Massey a self proclaimed Egyptologist and a CHRISTIAN who gave lectures on christianity and spiritualism. Gerald Massey said he considered vaccination a filthy fraud, wow. Neither W. Ward or Gerald Massey are objective sources, they are apologists. The poll was obviously for believers, not real objective sources.

            I see now, you go to apologetic christian writers to get your information, which means any information you come up with cannot be trusted. It is not objective in the least, it is incredible that christians refuse to use the knowledge gained by objective sources.
            You disagree with all the objective respectable historians, writers and collegiate scholars on subject I would think that would make one think. Judging by your sources you will always believe the delusional superstitious ranting’s of these apologists you deliberately seek out for your information.

            You said:
            " If you read Genesis you will find that there was matter from which the Earth and our universes were created from…. “God seperated the waters from the waters”…..

            A good source for this information is physics not the bible. The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years old, man has been on this earth from 150 to 250 thousand years. This we know from objective archeological, biological, geological, astronomical and historic sources to name a few, if you want to know creation I would suggest start there. The bible does not mention nebulous gases and particles, and it is a poor source for Physics and how the universe was created.
            Christian and biblical apologists will never give you an objective opinion, the fact that you obviously have to seek them out to justify your opinion should make you think.

            You said:
            " You will also find the time frame in which God created both in Genesis and the New Testament…. 2nd Peter 3:8 “one day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day”….

            You can find verses in the bible, where a day is a day and not a thousand years, I guess this is another example of contradictions in the bible. With your logic, you are told not to work on the Sabbath, so I guess that means not working for a thousand years.

            As far as Angels defecting and making a wall of sin. Your god created Angels, I guess he cannot seem to create anything that is good, He created them, they disappointed him, he created us and we disappointed him. This god seems a poor creator, maybe he should leave us alone, because when he does, less people seem to die or kill each other over his nonsense.

            December 07, 2012
            1. danthequestionman

              rebel62;
              Simply watching the history channels on tv show that the Biblical records of ancient historical Bible sites that are being discovered by reputable archeologists and geologists today are true.
              Mankind has worshipped God or gods since the beginning of recorded time because the knowledge of our Creator God as recorded in the Bible(s) is part of our spiritual lives.
              We seperate ourselves from the counsel of God when we choose evil over the good which God wants for us and of us because we desire the things of the world over the love of our Creator God.
              My God offers me everlasting life with Him basking in the glory of His love eternally.
              What do your physicists offer you? Certainly not eternal life.
              All you can expect from physics is an end to your life with no hope to really live for except perhaps fame or riches. Too bad those two objectives are reserved for the very few.
              I certainly hope that you “live long and prosper” as the Vulcan Spock of Star Ship Enterprise wished others, because without God in your life all you have is this worldly space and time.
              Sucks to be you, rebel, as I am completed in my love and faith in my Heavenly Father, my Creator God and Savior and live my life in hope and peace.

              December 08, 2012
            2. danthequestionman

              rebel62;
              I must correct you on a couple of my statements, one being that I did not “seek out” Christian(apologists) sources to get my information.
              I simply typed in my questions to Google and took my information from the first sources I reached.
              Not being a “lettered” or overly educated person I have to rely on my easiest sources of information.
              I fully understand my limitations of a few hours researching on a computer compared to those who have spent years studying and working on their bachelor and masters degrees in their own fields of endeavor.
              All I have is basic reasoning and what makes common sense to me.
              I had an up close personal experience with my Creator God when He healed me; I felt His Power and His Presence when I was healed. If people refuse to believe me, I find no fault in them. This was my experience. I will never forget it or deny it. To deny the Presence of my God would be tantamount to spitting in His face. I will never do that nor will I ever stop believing in Him. I really have no choice.
              Your comparisons of the Bible and physics have no bearing on my beliefs.
              Physics cannot absolutely prove evolution the same as they cannot ablolutely prove God does not exist.
              I know God exists so I do not have to rely on physics to either prove or disprove Him.
              The Bibles are my greatest source of information and education because I know what is written in them is the historical truth about how God has dealt with His creation.
              My God created all that is good to the point of endowing His creation free will to love, accept and choose Him according to their own choices.
              I believe the Biblical accounts of the heavenly host (angels – archangels) choosing another being to idolize instead of their creator gives credence to God creating mankind to sin in order for the fallen angels to have an opportunity to return to Him through equally sinful mankind in a process of redemption by repentance of their sin in leaving Him.
              Mind you, those are my conclusions as a believer in my Creator God. This is what makes the best sense to me of all the questions I’ve had about my existence and how I fit into the plan of God.
              I am not a theologian or studied person of any higher sources of learning. I have read as much as I could about most of the major religions and have found that process to be very enlightening and educating.
              I have a profound respect for all people of various faiths who earnestly practise their religious religions and rituals.
              My belief is in the Christian God of Abraham, Adam, Seth, Enoch, Moses and Jesus because that is who I was praying to when I was healed.
              That’s my story and I’m sticking to it like crazy glue(a little fodder for your mindful retorts).

              December 14, 2012
            3. hearthappy45

              I guess you could have a sabbath of not working for a thousand years if you first worked for 6 thousand years. But good luck with that.

              December 24, 2012
        2. hearthappy45

          Science actually shows that there was no before the big bang. Therefore, it would be impossible for there to have been a big bang without a God Who always is.

          December 24, 2012
  5. rebel62

    You said:
    " Simply watching the history channels on tv show that the Biblical records of ancient historical Bible sites that are being discovered by reputable archeologists and geologists today are true."

    Again, Wow, the shows might seem impartial but they have SPONSORS who support them. Lets say Chick-Fil-A were the sponsor, they are a christian company, they are not going to support the channel or the show if they do not agree with the program. Therefor it could hardly be called objective, not to mention the out of context statements from historians and archeologists. The religious are famous for that, if you want objective go to the SOURCE itself not programing on a christian backed media group.
    Besides you did not mention the History channel you mentioned " W. Ward Gasque and Gerald Massey."
    Both are religious apologists, so hardly could be considered objective.

    You said:
    " Mankind has worshipped God or gods since the beginning of recorded time because the knowledge of our Creator God as recorded in the Bible(s) is part of our spiritual lives. "

    We were superstitious because we lacked the intelligence to understand things like lightning, so being superstitious, we assumed a god did it. Because we were not capable of doing or understanding it our selves. That is why the more educated someone is the less likely they are to be superstitious and believe in fairy tails. That is why religion is shrinking in advanced societies, and increases in third world countries where modernity and thinking is suppressed. Also an interesting thing to note is there are no cave paintings of christ or the christian god, I wonder why that is? I wonder why none of the different religions agree with each other, they cannot even agree between themselves, so they have different branches in the same religion.

    You said:
    " We separate ourselves from the counsel of God when we choose evil over the good which God wants for us and of us because we desire the things of the world over the love of our Creator God."

    Say that to the hundreds of thousands of dead people and their families your god and religion have killed, I will stick with credulity and modernity. I will stick to doing what is right because it is the right thing to do, not because of fear of punishment.

    You said:
    " My God offers me everlasting life with Him basking in the glory of His love eternally."

    You can worship and pray to your god for eternity, while people you may know may be burning in hell for eternity for the horrible crime of working on the Sabbath. To me that does not sound like a fair god, you can have him, I would like no one to be in hell because it is not right to punish anyone for eternity, only a deranged mind could come up with that. If he is our father he has a poor way of showing his love, could you think of something your children could do to deserve eternal punishment? Keeping in mind hell is for everyone including children, purgatory and limbo are new inventions of the church to make it more palatable to their sheeple.

    You said:
    " What do your physicists offer you? Certainly not eternal life.
    All you can expect from physics is an end to your life with no hope to really live for except perhaps fame or riches. Too bad those two objectives are reserved for the very few."

    Physicists offer you an understanding of the life you are living, they cannot give you eternal life and neither can you church’s man made god. Also people do not go into Physics for fame and fortune, they go into it because of a desire to understand the world around them. They are not like the pious religious who preach and ask for money for a god who seems to need it more than man himself.

    You said:
    " I certainly hope that you “live long and prosper” as the Vulcan Spock of Star Ship Enterprise wished others, because without God in your life all you have is this worldly space and time."

    Thank you, without your god I can live in peace and not oppress others who may not believe in a make believe god. This worldly space and time is all we know, we may as well live and learn all we can about it, and not worry about evil vindictive angry selfish gods of past illiterate bronze age superstitious sheeple.

    You said:

    " Sucks to be you, rebel, as I am completed in my love and faith in my Heavenly Father, my Creator God and Savior and live my life in hope and peace."

    I would rather live a life of logic and reason, with love and understanding for my fellow non superstitious man or woman. I am grateful I am no longer superstitious, my eyes are open and I can see, feel and think, without being told how or when to do it. Science and man are not evil or anything to be afraid of, when the religious figure it out they will truly be saved. May Horus have mercy on your soul.

    December 08, 2012
    1. hearthappy45

      I would disagree that anybody should be put to death for working on the Sabbath.

      December 24, 2012
      1. rebel62

        To Hearthappy, You Said: " I guess you could have a sabbath of not working for a thousand years if you first worked for 6 thousand years. But good luck with that."

        The Bible talked it self into a time issue, now they are stuck with it, Love that christian logic.

        December 24, 2012
      2. rebel62

        To Hearthappy, You said: " I would disagree that anybody should be put to death for working on the Sabbath."

        Congratulations you are on your way to thinking away superstition and fear of the Bible, Merry Christmas and Happy Solstice.

        December 24, 2012
  6. rebel62

    To Anomaloushominid, Who is that directed to ?

    December 24, 2012